The Boardroom Podcast with Jabez Roberts
Video Version
Jabez Roberts: [00:00:00] I want to look at something before we discuss "The 5-Day Job Search". You mentioned that for the past four years, you've doubled your income every year. How?
Annie Margarita Yang: One of the things that I think people should do is to pay themselves first. What does that mean to pay yourself first? It doesn't mean to treat yourself first. I asked this question to a high school kid. "What does it mean to pay yourself first?" She said, "It means to treat yourself first. Because you work hard for your money. You deserve to make yourself feel good. So go out and get yourself a manicure." And I said, "No, that's not what it means. It means you treat yourself like you are a bill." I worked a whole string of minimum wage jobs after that. I did finish before I went to college. And even after I went to college, I worked a whole string of minimum wage jobs and I didn't know how to get ahead in my career. I had a lot of experiences. I kept thinking, [00:01:00] "Why am I stuck here? Why is it that I see other people progressing in their careers and they've got these nice, cushy jobs in an air-conditioned office with a comfy chair and everything? Why can't I have that?" One of the main things people need to do is learn to be content. If you're not content, I don't think you can ever get your finances in order. Just because I didn't make a lot of money doesn't mean I was unhappy. I was still content with my life. I figured I could teach people how to manage their money. How can they save their money so that they can also set aside at least an emergency fund, but also have room in their budget for a bit of fun? That's reasonable, right? That was the initial content I was creating on YouTube.
Jabez Roberts: What's some of the feedback you've gotten from friends, family, and just strangers in general after they've read your book?
Annie Margarita Yang: Some of the feedback has [00:02:00] been really polarizing.
Jabez Roberts: You wrote a book, The 5-Day Job Search, and we need not explain how difficult it is to get a job. What was the inspiration, the motivation, the reason why you underwent the journey, the study, the research to write this book, really? And who did you write it for?
Annie Margarita Yang: If I were to teach how to land multiple job offers in a short period of time, there's a whole system.
Jabez Roberts: And you. You also have your own accounting firm. You have two Amazon bestsellers, well two, my fingers were not in frame, two Amazon bestsellers, one of them an award-winning book and um, that's the book that we're actually going to be speaking about mainly today. That's The 5-Day Job Search, but other Amazon bestsellers: One Thousand and One Ways to Save Money. Help us help you. If you're excited about today's episode, then hit the like and subscribe [00:03:00] button to help us grow. The more of this episode you watch, you comment, you hit like, and you subscribe, the bigger the channel grows. The bigger the channel grows, the bigger the guests get, the bigger the guests get, the more value you'll be able to get from every episode. So help us help you by hitting like and subscribing and sharing this episode with your friends and family. Thank you. Let's get to the episode. Hey guys, welcome to the Boardroom Podcast. Today we have an amazing guest with us. We have indeed Annie Margarita. Annie, how are you doing today?
Annie Margarita Yang: Jaybez, thank you so much for inviting me onto the Boardroom Podcast. I'm so excited to be here today to talk about some things that people can learn from my new book, The 5-Day Job Search. Now, before you go on though, I want to say if your listeners or your podcast listen until the very end, they [00:04:00] will learn how they can get a special offer, which is basically a 10 percent off discount on a signed paperback copy of The 5-Day Job Search. So please, guys, listen until the very end for your special offer.
Jabez Roberts: Okay. Question before we go forward, can I also get that 10 percent unsigned copy?
Annie Margarita Yang: No, no, no. I'll mail you a free signed copy because of your hospitality of having me on your show today. So after the show is over, just give me your mailing address. I'll give it to you as a gift.
Jabez Roberts: All right. So you see that, guys? Good things do come to people who wait. All right. I'm duly excited. This is wonderful. Signed copy of Annie's new book, and we're going to get right into it.
But before we touch on the new book, let us learn who Annie is. Annie, before we get started, where is your favorite city?
Annie Margarita Yang: My favorite city is Boston. That's where I live right now. I'm originally born and raised from New York City, but I remember [00:05:00] growing up as a kid, we went on a school trip, a three-day trip to Boston, and the moment we stepped off the bus, I was like, "I love it here."
And really, every future time afterward that I visited Boston, I was like, "I would really love to live here." But I didn't know how to move here. Like, I didn't have the courage to move out of my parents' home all the way to a new city. But, um, I got married to my husband, he went to school in Texas.
So I followed him there. And then when he was deciding which schools to apply to for his PhD program, he applied to Boston University and he got in. So here I am. Wow. Yeah.
Jabez Roberts: That is amazing. So we have Boston as your favorite city. You're currently living in Boston. This is a question we ask all the guests on our podcast.
Let's say that you and I are friends, Annie. We're walking down the street in Boston, famous street. I see one of my friends coming and I say to my friend, "Friend, this is [00:06:00] Annie. Annie, this is friend." Who exactly is "friend" meeting when he meets Annie in this instance?
Annie Margarita Yang: Oh my, I'll be very honest. I'm not the same person as I am on the internet because when people meet me in real life, I don't really like to brag or say what I've done.
I kind of like people just to discover on their own the kind of things that I've done if they stumble upon me on the internet later on. So I normally just introduce myself as a real estate accountant. I just say, "Yeah, I work for a property management company, I'm a real estate accountant, and I have a YouTube channel."
That's all. So maybe I, yeah, maybe I don't follow my own advice. I tell people, "Maybe you should tell people more about what you do." But I, I find I'm personally a little intimidated. I'm scared to intimidate other people because my personality can be really intense. So if people know right [00:07:00] away, "Oh, she wrote two books or she bought her own place by the time she was 25 without her parents' help,"
and I tell them these kinds of things, people get a little bit intimidated. So I kind of just let them discover it on their own through social media. Yeah.
Jabez Roberts: And that's true. And you know, the thing about it that's quite interesting is, about 15, not even 15, perhaps 10 years ago, maybe even eight years ago, if you told someone that you have a YouTube channel, it was no big deal. But in today's economy, and we're going to get to that, to say to someone, "Oh yes,
I have a YouTube channel," they respond, "Oh, really? What's your handle? Wow, a million subscribers. You must be so popular," and you're in celebrity's fair all over again. You wrote a book, "The 5-Day Job Search", and we need not explain how difficult it is to get a job. What was the inspiration, the motivation, the reason why you underwent the journey, the study, the research to write this [00:08:00] book, really?
And who did you write it for?
Annie Margarita Yang: I actually didn't do any research for the book. It was actually a culmination of the last 10 years of my life. Because I didn't go straight to college. I worked a whole string of minimum wage jobs after I did finish, before I went to college, and even after I went to college. I worked a whole string of minimum wage jobs and I didn't know how to get ahead in my career.
I had a whole bunch of experiences. I'm just like, "Why am I stuck here? Why is it that I see other people progressing in their career and they've got these nice, cushy jobs, in an air-conditioned office with a comfy chair and everything. Why can't I have that?" My heart isn't there. I'll be very honest. It's not my calling. I don't feel compelled to work for a Fortune 500 company to help them make more money as a cog in the machine or any of that stuff. And I wanted to do my own career, my own way, because I'm a lot more creative and I want to [00:09:00] follow my own path. The "Five Day Job Search" itself, the book with no research at all,
it's actually very interesting how it came about. I was growing my accounting firm. So, while I'm still working a full-time job in accounting, I'm also growing my own firm. And one night in November, I couldn't fall asleep. I'm a really intuitive person. I can hear messages from God, you would say. And I hear these messages like, "You need to write your next book.
This is what you need to write in the book." And I'm just being thrown all the kind of stories that need to go in this book and all the kind of life lessons that also need to be included. And I'm like, "God, I'm not interested. I don't want to write this book. I just want to grow my own firm. I want to have clients.
Why write a second book? Not into that. Go find someone else who can be your messenger." And it's kind of like I'm being told, "No, no, you're the only one who can do this. You are the messenger. You were [00:10:00] called to do this. You have to do this." And so I ended up just staying up that night until 4 a.m.
writing down everything that needs to go in the book. For 10 days straight, I heard what needs to be in the book. So I recorded it into my iPhone. I just spoke it into my phone and then I dictated it with AI. And then I turned that into a manuscript. So that's how the book came to be.
There was no research involved for the book at all. Yeah.
Jabez Roberts: Oh, well, I mean, if it's inspiration from God, that's all the research you need, because that's the source of wisdom. I want to touch on your religious experience and beliefs just a bit. What religion do you practice? How long have you been practicing?
What has your experience been like to date in that religion?
Annie Margarita Yang: I am a mix. You're the first one to have asked me this question. I'm a mix. The book itself is, you would say, more of like Christian based because here in the U.S., people are more familiar with [00:11:00] Christianity, and I am a baptized Christian myself.
I have read the Bible as well. So there are some biblical references to what is in the Bible and how it relates to your job search. But I would say I'm the kind of person, like, if I find something useful in a different religion, I will take that. Like karma, for example, you reap what you sow, you know?
Jabez Roberts: Almost like a cosmopolitan, you take bits and pieces from different religions to make yourself better.
Annie Margarita Yang: Yes! Finally, there's a word to describe what I do. I was calling myself a cherry picker. Like, I pick only the nice cherries out of the bag. But I like that word better, yeah.
Jabez Roberts: And how long has this been going on?
Annie Margarita Yang: This, I think I would say ten years. It's been like this.
Jabez Roberts: The inspiration for the book came from God. You had for 10 days messages [00:12:00] about what should be in the book. You, I think it was the memo app, perhaps, perhaps not, but you took some voice messages in your iPhone, used AI, wonderful, to transcribe the voice note to a transcript. And that really made the manuscript for the book. Some of the feedback that you've gotten from friends, families, and just strangers in general, after they've read your book.
Annie Margarita Yang: Some of the feedback has been really polarizing. I personally am in love with my book. I usually don't love my work because I'm the most critical of my own work.
Like if I make a video, I can still look for things that should be improved. And I'm like, "Oh, this is a terrible video," even though other people love it so much. And I can't even watch my own videos. I cringe, right? But this book, the more I read it, the more I love it. I'm like, "Wow, this is everything I would love to read in a career book."
But, surprisingly, I have gotten backlash. It's been very much like people have said "I really love it" or "I really hate it." And some of the things that have surprised me is like, people pick up the book and they go, "I thought this was going to be like an atheist book" because the title, the description, the table of contents doesn't mention the fact that it has some Christian references. It's not like all throughout the book, but some of the things, you know, I mention a few stories that can be related to even today's society in the book from the Bible.
Right. And people have a problem with that. They don't like any form of spiritual stories in a career book. I mean, you can't please everyone, right?
Jabez Roberts: True, true. So, I'm getting here that the book has been well received by some, highly criticized by others, and you, for one, who wrote the book, and characteristically, might I add, loved the book. [00:14:00]
What are some of the things in the book that you would like to share with us? Because I know there is a special at the end of the episode for the book. Give us an idea of what to expect when we sit down and read The 5-Day Job Search.
Annie Margarita Yang: Some of the things you can find in there are stories from my own life where I had to overcome the fact that, after I finished getting my degree in communications in college, I ended up working at Domino's Pizza.
Like, I had to deal with that fact, right? How did I turn that into actually a powerful story? How can you take that story and use that in a job interview? I talk about that in the book, which is important because even if you work as a cashier at the grocery store, you can still take that and turn it into an amazing story.
Like, for example, when I worked as a cashier at the grocery store, I had coworkers who didn't show up on time. [00:15:00] Every week, somebody called out sick at that job. And my boss would always call me last minute, "Annie, can you come into work today? I know it's your day off, but can you come in and fill in for your coworker who called in sick or is hungover?"
And I always ended up having to come in. I don't complain. I do it with a smile. And even at work, at that job during downtime, people like to fool around. They like to just sit and talk and basically just not do anything, right? But during my downtime at that job, I'm still thinking, "Okay, there are still things to do."
You can look for things to do. Maybe stocking the shelves, checking that everything looks nice, ensuring the merchandise is well displayed, sweeping the floor, wiping the table. You can always still do something. And my mindset is basically, even if I'm not paid that well to do this job, I can still put in my best.
I can still put in my A-game. And [00:16:00] I can still always make sure I show up on time to work, even if it's not a really prestigious job. Because for me, that's practice for the big day. When is the big day? The big day is maybe one day I will meet the president. Maybe one day I will meet the prime minister.
And if I have spent my entire life practicing the act of showing up on time, putting in my best work, then by the time I meet really important and powerful people in our society, it's like a walk in the park. Because I've been practicing for that my whole life. If my coworkers were about to meet the president, I think because they've been so used to showing up late, they might show up 10 minutes late to see the president, you know?
That's how I viewed it, and I talk about that in my job interviews.
Jabez Roberts: And the thing that we have to realize is that success, being a successful person in anything in your life, is really a culmination of the results of the habits you practice. Therefore, [00:17:00] I don't believe, I don't remember who said it, but they said it best when they said that success is not a result, it's a habit.
You have to have the habit of being successful, of showing up on time, getting work done. I heard a lot of things because you said that when everyone else was going off to college, you were working at Domino's Pizza, was it?
Annie Margarita Yang: Yeah, well, that was even after I finished college. I was working at Domino's Pizza.
But before that, I was working as a cashier for the grocery store. I gave massages, I worked at a hardware store. Like, I did all sorts of things before going to college, yeah. And
Jabez Roberts: How long ago was that?
Annie Margarita Yang: That was when I was, let's say... From 18 to 20. I was working those jobs from 20 to 22.
I worked on my bachelor's degree and then from 22 to 24, I was working minimum wage jobs still, and then from 24 [00:18:00] to now I'm 28. So, for the last four years, I've been doubling my income every year.
Jabez Roberts: Wow! That's brilliant. And you also have your own accounting firm. You have two Amazon bestsellers, well two, my fingers were not in frame, two Amazon bestsellers, one of them an award-winning book.
And, that's the book that we're actually going to be speaking about mainly today. That's "The 5-Day Job Search", but the other Amazon bestseller that you have is "1001 Ways to Save Money". What was your childhood like? And how does it contrast to your reality today? Because I'm hearing that you were someone that grew up with an excellent work ethic.
You had a clear vision of who you wanted to be and what you wanted to achieve. Despite the conventional wisdom of going off to college and getting in debt, we're going to get to that soon. You did something different and here you are, brilliant, awarded and rewarded as well. So, what was [00:19:00] your childhood like and how does it differ from what your reality is today?
Annie Margarita Yang: I didn't have a good childhood. I would say my parents, they provided for me. Definitely. But they are working-class people. They're immigrants from China. They came to our country with $400 in their pocket. My mom grew up getting her water from a well. My mom didn't have an education past the 6th grade.
So, my mom came here not knowing how to speak English. My dad worked as a high school math teacher in China. Came here, had to get another associate's degree, even though he already had a college degree in China. Got an associate's degree and then worked for the MTA, which in New York City is basically the train network. Right? So, really a working-class family growing up. But my parents were really frugal. They cooked all their meals. We never [00:20:00] went out to eat only for special occasions like birthdays or holidays. We went out to eat. And we had shelter, we had heat, you know, all the basic necessities that a child should have, which here in our first world country, we take for granted, but it's actually a really nice life for people in third-world countries, right? But compared to other people growing up, I would say we didn't have that much compared to people around me, you know. And we definitely had our share of fights because my parents didn't understand American culture.
So, when I was 14, I got myself a brown boyfriend. They didn't like that. They definitely freaked out and they said it would affect my grades and stuff like that, but I didn't. I still got straight A's despite having a boyfriend, but they were still very much like, "You can't have a boyfriend." And we had child protection services get involved, [00:21:00] things like that.
I had to go through therapy. It was not a good childhood. If I had to go back to childhood, I'm like, "I don't want to." I very much love adulthood. But yes, you are right. Even back then as a kid, I had a strong work ethic. I was very disciplined. Like, even as a kid, when I wanted something, I was very persistent.
I don't want to give up. You know, I am very idealistic. When I want something, I set my mind to it. And I will go after it. I don't care what people say. So that has carried with me into adulthood. The things that I have in my adulthood today, I'm really appreciative of it. Like one of the things I really wanted when I was a kid was piano lessons, but because my parents couldn't afford to buy a piano or to pay for piano lessons, I never had that.
I asked for that for more than three years and there was always no, no, no, no, no. So finally, as an adult, now that I have money, I'm like I can finally make some of the [00:22:00] childhood dreams that I had come true. I'm taking piano lessons now.
Jabez Roberts: I hear that you had a lot going on growing up and this was all really just a result of the circumstances.
It's because your dad was qualified to be a math teacher, but could only work with the MTA. That's the train association in, um, New York, I believe, and your mom didn't speak any English. So we can understand that your parents had a tough time and because they had a tough time, given the circumstances, you had a less than ideal time in many situations.
But today I see you smiling, you're bright, you're vibrant, you're excited. Could you say that the rough beginning that you had has given you two things? Well, one would be a competitive edge in terms that you've been there and you're like, you know what? I'm not going back to that kind of life. I'm going to work and make things better.
And would you also agree that having gone through those experiences with your [00:23:00] parents, who you love dearly based on how you speak about them, could we also say that having endured that, you have a certain grit and tenacity about you where you say that even if things get bad, even if things go to the worst they could be, because I've survived that, because I've been through that kind of experience with my parents.
I'm pretty sure I can make it through and that's fueled your success. Are those things that you would agree on or do you differ in your thoughts on that?
Annie Margarita Yang: Oh, I'm so grateful for the kind of childhood I had, even though it wasn't the best looking back. I'm like, I wouldn't, if, if God had designed my life in this way, I think God designed my life perfectly.
If I had to do it all again the same way, I wouldn't have changed a thing because of the way things turned out and the kind of person I have become. I'm looking back and I'm thinking, man, it is because of my parents that I am the way I am today. Because my mom is a natural salesperson. Like, when [00:24:00] my mom wants to sell something, she doesn't stop.
Like, for example, my husband and I were married. When we go back to visit my parents, um, she cooks a big dinner, right? And then, of course, with a big dinner, my husband's already full. But then my mom's like, taking out a bowl of grapes. And then she goes, "Handrio, do you want to eat grapes?" And then my husband goes, "No, I'm, I'm full right now.
Maybe later?" Cause he doesn't want to offend, right? And then five minutes later, she goes, "How about now? Do you want grapes now?" And he's like, "No, no, no, I'm still full." Then five minutes later again, she goes, "How about now? Do you want grapes now?" Like, she, she like, doesn't take no for an answer. Yeah, like she, I think she naturally...
She hears no, but then when she hears no, her mind automatically hears it as like, [00:25:00] "Oh, they just don't want it now, but they'll definitely want it later." That's true. Natural salesperson. Um, and I take that sense of humor and wit in my own selling as well, um, when people tell me, no, it just means no right now.
So I, I, I keep going. Um, my dad definitely very intelligent. My dad, uh, was valedictorian in, in his high school. I think back in the late 1970s, China finally allowed people to go to university. So for 10 years, no one was allowed to go to university because it was considered elitist. Um, so my dad in his senior year of high school, that was the first year people were allowed to start applying to go to college.
So we have like 10 years' worth of people all trying to go to college that one year. And he was the only person in his entire school who ended up going to college.
Jabez Roberts: [00:26:00] Wow.
Annie Margarita Yang: Yeah. So my dad is definitely a very, very intelligent man. And I, I have to say a lot of, I think a lot of my brains do come from him. So I, I'm grateful I wouldn't have changed a thing about how my life was set up.
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This allows us to do our best work with clients who are serious about working with us. Go to zellehand.com/consultation or click the link in the description of this video to book your first session. Now let's get back to the video. So your dad is the brains of the family, like you said, and your mom being the creative one that moves and persuades each other.
I hear that they're a very good team with an excellent dynamic. You mentioned you have a YouTube channel. Could you just briefly tell us what your YouTube channel is about, the types of videos that you do? And all this that you make your content for?
Annie Margarita Yang: Yes, in the beginning, I started this YouTube channel because I saw that there were no videos out there catered for low-income people.
Like, we see videos catered more for middle-class people. Because I was watching these videos on how to stop living paycheck to paycheck, or how to save thousands of dollars a year. And people were saying things like, well, [00:28:00] stop buying flowers to decorate your home. Or like, I was like, flowers? Stop buying candles.
Stop going to HomeGoods and buying scented candles. And then I was like, I've never bought scented candles in my whole life. What are they talking about, you know? Or like, stop going out to eat more than five times a week. I was, I'm, I'm listening to these people's advice. And I was like, people spend their money this way? I've been low income for a very long time up until I was 24 years old. And I just couldn't relate. I was like I couldn't believe my ears when I heard this like that they were spending so much money on makeup and things like that. And I figured like this isn't advice that will work. Like if somebody was in my shoes working at Domino's Pizza as well and they were hearing this kind of advice.
They were like, well, I've also never bought scented candles. Like how is this advice going to help me? And because I have lived this way for a very long time where I was very frugal, but I'm still [00:29:00] content just because I don't, I didn't make a lot of money doesn't mean that I was unhappy. I was still content with my life.
Um, I figured I can teach people how they can manage their money, how can they save their money, so that they can also, like, set aside at least an emergency fund, but also have room in their budget for a little bit of fun. That's reasonable, right? Um, so that was the initial... kind of content that I was creating on YouTube, but now that I have The 5-Day Job Search book, the YouTube will change because I think, well, I've come to realize a lot of people actually don't know how to get a job quickly. Like if I were to teach how to land multiple job offers in a short period of time.
There's a whole system. It's like, let's say this in itself is a culmination of maybe 50 different soft skills or subskills, like microskills. [00:30:00] And if you can master each of these 50 microskills, then you can land a job in five days, right?
So I want to teach these kind of skills, different skills such as how to have a nice-looking headshot for your LinkedIn profile, how to find 50 different skills to put on your LinkedIn profile, or how to have a great bio for your LinkedIn profile. So it's not just like how to make a great LinkedIn profile, but it's like broken down, like, "Hey, there's this one component that you can pay attention to on LinkedIn." And if there's also another component that you can pay attention to for your LinkedIn. And if you can pay attention to a whole combination of those small, tiny components, it will turn into this great LinkedIn profile. I think it's like a sum of its small parts, basically.
Jabez Roberts: Excellent. I want us to touch on the process that you mentioned, the system [00:31:00] to help millennials or college graduates or anyone searching for a job, get a job in five days. Matter of fact, interesting story. You've actually used this system to land a job without a degree in the field of accounting—blew my mind. But before we get there, here's what I want to do. And I want you to tell me what you think. I want just to first look at the money traps that people get themselves into and see the things that they do wrong. That's causing them to spend more than they need to spend and some of the money-saving tips and habits that they should employ today. So once we have an idea of how to control our money and not spend more than we earn, then we can look into getting a job and making more money than we're currently making. And that will give us a path to financial success. What do you think about that strategy?
Annie Margarita Yang: To go forward? We can go over that very quickly, for sure. One of the things that I think people should do is to pay themselves first. What does that mean [00:32:00] to pay yourself first? It doesn't mean to treat yourself first. I asked this question to a little high school kid, "What does it mean to pay yourself first?" She said, "It means to treat yourself first because you work hard for your money. You deserve to make yourself feel good. So go out and get yourself a manicure." And I said, "No, that's not what it means." It means you treat yourself like you are a bill. If you are a utility company or a landlord, you get paid first, right? You are that important. You're paying your future self. So whatever it is, if you have no money saved up or if you already have a fully funded emergency fund, constantly, no matter what, the moment your paycheck gets deposited into your bank account, you need to set aside a minimum of ten percent of that income into a separate account, whether it's for investment or savings. Because if [00:33:00] you're looking at your savings as what's left after you've spent everything at the end of the month, you're always going to end up spending it. When I first got married to my husband, and I said, "Hey, I want to combine our finances and I want to make a budget. We're going to save all this money." And I asked him how he saved, and he said, "Yeah, I have savings." And then I was like, "Great, how much is in your savings account?" And he's like, "What savings account?" And then I was like, "You don't have a savings account, but you have savings. Where are your savings?" He's like, "It's in my checking account." And then I'm like, "Are you really telling me that your savings is what's left in any given month after you've spent it?" He's like, "Yeah, I just spend it as I feel like it." That's not the way to view it; that is not how it works. It has to be more like an "out of sight, out of mind" kind of thing. So take it out.
The other thing is, you have to be really aware of what you spend your money on. I think there's a huge focus on budgeting your money, but I have found that if people simply wrote down what they spent their money on and they became aware, instantly they would start questioning whether a specific purchase was worth it.
And that, in itself, that awareness, will help you curb your spending.
Jabez Roberts: True, that's true. Whatever gets tracked gets optimized is...
Annie Margarita Yang: ...what they say. The third thing, listen, I want to say make a budget, but the math, it's not a math problem. Like I always thought, "Hey, if, if I just told people, this is how much you make, this is how much you could spend, you know, this is [00:35:00] the average cost of living.
So, this is how much you'll have left as well." It doesn't work. People are not able to follow it even though it's like a really mathematically reasonable plan. I think the main thing is they're having like emotional issues. Like... If, if I'm not happy with how my life is going, hey, why don't I go out and spend a lot of money at TJ Maxx so that I could feel better about myself for a day?
You know, why don't I go shopping and buy all these cute clothes so that I could be a lot happier for, I don't know, the first week when I get these new clothes. It's like this high that people get. And so one of the main things that people need to do is they need to learn how to be content. If you're not content, I don't think you can ever get your finances in order.
Jabez Roberts: Well, that's a powerful message right there. If you're not content, I don't think you'll ever get your finances in order. So you're telling me that if I am [00:36:00] making 60,000 a year right now, and I'm spending 65,000, so I'm in the negative. The answer is not for me to try to make 70,000 or 80,000 per year.
Indeed, it is to not spend 65,000. Is that what you're saying right now?
Annie Margarita Yang: Right. Because desires can be unlimited. We can have an unlimited amount of desires. Like me, myself, as I've doubled my income year after year, I have new desires that I didn't have before. You know, when I was working at Domino's, my roommate at the time actually had a piano in our apartment.
I have never sat down, never had the desire to learn piano, never played on it at all, even though the piano was right there. The desire wasn't there, right? Now that I made more money, at [00:37:00] 26, I'm like... Okay, I have this money. What am I gonna spend this money on? Suddenly, I have a desire to further my music interests, right?
Also, like I specifically remember back then, I had no desire to work on my appearance, my physical appearance. I thought, okay, what matters is character. Character development is what matters most. I want people to respect me; I don't want people to be focused on how I look. But, as I started to make more money, my desire to look more physically attractive kicked in.
I was spending money that I never thought I'd spend. Just to work on my appearance. Like, now, my shampoo costs 30 a bottle. I wouldn't have spent that kind of money back then. I would have been like, that's ridiculous, 30 for a bottle of shampoo and 30 for a bottle of conditioner.
Back then, I hear you're listening, by the way. Thank you, thank you very much. [00:38:00] Back then, I would have argued that an 8 bottle of shampoo would have sufficed. You see? So even as I've made more money, desires have increased as well. So really, you have to hone in on your desires and learn how to be content with what you have.
That's the only solution.
Jabez Roberts: What a problem I'm hearing though, is that. There are two things I'm hearing: at first, to get your finances in order, you have to get a hold of your desires and not spend too much. But then, as you start to make more money, your desires are going to change so that you want more things that you never wanted.
And a piano is not cheap, and a $30 bottle of shampoo and a $30 bottle of conditioner versus $8 a bottle is very, um, it's a very different price range, just $22 in difference. But when you look at what's being bought, it's very different. [00:39:00] What I want to ask you is, how do people even get their desires under control?
Because, as you would realize, there is a social aspect of things. For example, I'm from Jamaica, and in Jamaica, there are a few things that are ironclad. iPhone is supreme. BMWs are supreme. Benzes are supreme. So, even if you're poor, you want to have one of those. It's not that you're rich that you have them; it's just a status symbol.
People laugh at people with Androids, and even if the Android is better than the iPhone, it's the same. And if you have more money and you drive a Corolla, or a Toyota, you're looked at differently if you have an Audi, or a Benz, or a BMW.
Annie Margarita Yang: I understand the status symbol, but this is under the assumption that everybody wants the status symbol. Yes, my desires have increased, but I have no desire for a status symbol. You won't see me walking around with an Hermès handbag, you know, like, or at [00:40:00] least I don't think so. Maybe at this point in my life, I can't see myself desiring those kind of status symbols. For me personally, the way I view it is, what is really important to you?
For me, I'm very clear about what I value, right? Right now, definitely one of my values in my late 20s is my appearance. I've got to work on it. Because if I want to progress in my career and I want to become more famous, that's something, as a woman, I have to do. Like, I can't avoid it. Especially if people are going to take pictures of me or they're going to recognize me in the street, then they, I must look – that's your brand right there – I must look great everywhere I go, even if I go to the grocery store.
Right? So that is my focus right now, and I have to put money toward it. I can't look great without spending the money on that. The other thing is like most of my money goes toward music. It's not like [00:41:00] I'm spending money on music and buying a new car and buying a new this, new that. A huge chunk of my budget is for the piano, taking additional music theory lessons, for piano books as well, going to concerts.
So, yes, while I have an increase in desires and an increase in income as well, the focus of what I spend my money on is actually really highly focused on these specific things. That's the difference. And I...
Jabez Roberts: I agree. And I agree with you because one of the things we have to realize is that as you progress in your career and you have more notoriety and more people learn about you, you do have to maintain a level of professionalism, and I could call it an appearance of excellence because yours is a personal brand, right?
People are going to look at you, and if you look poor, you look bedraggled, you look beaten down, there's no way anyone is going to take money advice from you. And that's where this [00:42:00] comes in. So we can even look at your desires as an investment into your career. And that's a healthy way of looking at it, in my perspective, coming from their door.
In terms of desires, savings, tracking your spending, I want to look at something before we look at The 5-Day Job Search. You mentioned that for the past four years, you've doubled your income every year. How is the question?
Annie Margarita Yang: How? They came from different sources. It's interesting. I don't think it was deliberate on my part to go out and double the income every year. I think maybe the first year I was really deliberate about it. I took a course from Ramit Sethi. It was called... Earn 1,000 on the side. I was 24 years old, just got my first accounting job with no accounting degree. And I questioned like, "Hey, if it is true that the average raise that people get is just like 2 percent to track for inflation, right? Then I'll never get ahead if [00:43:00] I'm just getting a 2 percent raise. So why don't I learn how to make 1,000 on the side," as Ramit Sethi says. So, I took his course, I got on a payment plan.
Like, you can either pay a thousand all at once, or you can do like 12 monthly payments of 99. Because I didn't have that much money, I went with the 12 monthly payments of 99. I took his course and then within eight weeks, I landed a bookkeeping client that was paying me 150 a month. So that first client, on a month-per-month basis, was paying off for the fact that I got his course.
Um, and then after that, my YouTube channel around the same time period took off as well. So people started to know more about me and what I was doing. And then, um, yeah, I think at some point I was looking for another job and I'm in the process of applying. Yeah, that's what happened. Yeah, at some point I was looking for another accounting job full time. [00:44:00]
And in the process of applying, I had applied to a part-time accounting job as well. But I turned that guy into a client. Instead of becoming his employee. So I turned him into a client. I still have him as my client for my practice. Right. Um, and then. Uh, one year after that, I bought my own place, 25 years old, right?
And this company, they're a big company in the United States, it's like related to Quicken Loans and Rocket Mortgage. They're big mortgage companies. They came across my video on YouTube about how I bought my own place at 25 years old, without any financial help from my parents. And I was talking about how happy I was to finally have achieved my version of the American dream.
And, um, they wanted me to make videos for them, three videos a month on how to become a first-time home buyer, because they feel like I can speak to other people who want to become first-time home buyers as well. So I landed that contract, um, it kind of just snowballed up from there. [00:45:00] With more people talking about what I was doing and then just referring them over to me, I would say.
So I don't think I was really deliberate in doubling the income. It kind of just happened. Yeah.
Jabez Roberts: Is it confidential or are you comfortable sharing with us the number you're at right now and the number you're aiming for next year?
Annie Margarita Yang: Yeah, uh, so the number I'm at is 80k, but I see I would like to make 160k for the next year. But this new book, it's a new thing. The whole accounting thing that I was growing, that was based on the last four years. See, that's growing based on my past experience and then people having that kind of idea of me and reputation.
But this book is a brand new thing. It's like, I'm here trying to help people grow in their careers, and I'm trying to sell the book. So that will take a while, because if a book is 17.99 a book, I'd have to sell tens of thousands of books to really get up to 160k just from book sales. [00:46:00] But I, you know, we'll see.
How much can I sell? I plan to sell millions of this book, but I'm not really sure how long it will take. Uh, the way I see it is, everything in God's time.
Jabez Roberts: Everything in God's time. And the thing about it as well is that you have an excellent work ethic. So what that's going to do for you is that it's going to position you for future success.
And just by continuing your work, you're going to have more opportunities come your way. That's just how it works. I also heard that when you write a book, it's not the first one that makes the New York Times bestseller. So the recent guests that we had on the podcast, Mr. Jeff Barnes, he's a two times international bestseller, but he didn't make New York times and he's pretty amazing as well. So I'm sure you guys, if you continue with it, that's you and Mr. Barnes. You can hit the New York Times bestseller. You can make millions just selling your books. All right, so we've spoken about the book. [00:47:00]
We've spoken about saving money, millennial finances. We've spoken about getting your expenses under control, your desires, because if you don't do that, then no amount of money is gonna save you. As you said, your desires can be infinite.
And as you make more money, your desire is such that you're going to want more expensive things. We're also now going to look at The 5-Day Job Search in terms of the contents of the book and application, really, because you mentioned the system, you mentioned LinkedIn, and I have a LinkedIn account.
It's not dead. There are a lot of followers and everything, but I haven't necessarily gotten job offers from it. So what is this system that you've mentioned that will help us to use our LinkedIn to get a job in five days? And you mentioned that there are about 50 different, what are they? Are they sub-skills, [00:48:00] sub-skills?
Yeah. So 50 different sub-skills that we can look at that will help us to be more primed as a candidate for a job. Please teach.
Annie Margarita Yang: One of the first things you can do is you need to have a professional headshot. People make the mistake of thinking that if they went to a wedding and they were dressed up, and a professional photographer took their photo at a wedding, they can use that picture for their LinkedIn.
Please don't do that. That's not the same as a professional headshot. I want people to actually go on Google and search "professional headshot photographer near me." And look at all the different portfolios. See which one has the kind of vibe that you're going for, and use that one. Like, the other thing is, to look professional in your headshot, 80 percent of the work to look amazing is actually from the homework you do before you even show up at the studio.
People think that just because it's a professional headshot, if they show up at the studio, it'll come out looking great. But actually, no, that's not the [00:49:00] case. A lot of things can't be photoshopped out. Like, for example, if you didn't get enough sleep, you can't photoshop out your eye bags. So what I want people to do is, you know, get a really good night's sleep for three days before the shoot so that your eyes don't have eye bags.
Um, another thing is you need to be hydrated because chapped lips can't be fixed with photoshop either. You want nice, smooth-looking lips, right? Um, and also on the day of the shoot, have a scheduled appointment ready to go to the hair salon. So basically, get a fresh haircut, cut off all the split ends on your hair, and get a nice blowout if you're a woman.
Then, also use the makeup artist that the photographer recommends. Don't try to do your own makeup if you can't afford it, because camera makeup is not the same as the kind of makeup you would wear in real life. Camera makeup is actually a lot [00:50:00] heavier, cakier. Because the bright white lights will make you look washed out.
So they need to put a lot more makeup for it to even show up in front of the camera. And men need to wear makeup as well. It's not just women only. Because of the fact that these bright lights will wash you out. So if you can do all of these things combined, you will come out looking great in your headshot.
But you have to put in the effort. You can't just show up.
Jabez Roberts: So get a professional headshot done. Don't do your makeup, get your hair done on the day, get sleep, hydrate, because chap legs, chapped lips, tongue twisters, right? Chapped lips are a thing and Photoshop can't really help that. We have the appearance set and ready.
What about the 50 sub-skills that we need to look at in terms of what exactly are sub-skills even, really?
Annie Margarita Yang: I'm, I'm making up the number. I don't know the exact number of sub-skills. I'm still fleshing out exactly the whole system, [00:51:00] but I have something that works because someone came to me and asked me for help, and he was able to land a job offer in two weeks.
Even like transitioning into a different kind of job. So if he was able to successfully do it, then you guys can do it too. And another sub-skill, in itself, is knowing exactly what job title you want to go after, because if you don't actually know what job title you want for your next job, it's going to be a horizontal move rather than a vertical move that will help you in your career, and you're gonna end up in some sort of dead-end job.
Right? So, like, for example, the skill of knowing exactly what job title you want, you have to think of what career progression is. Like, what do you want to do 10 years from now? Someone came to me and said he's working as a front desk agent for a hotel. And I asked him, well, what's his end goal there?
Does he just want [00:52:00] to keep working as a front desk agent? What does he want to do years from now, 10 years, 20 years from now? And he told me he wants to be a hotel manager. I mean, you can't just go from working at the front desk to going straight to becoming the hotel manager. That's something that takes several promotions along the way to get there, and you want to do that efficiently. Because if you do not actually plan out the path to get there, like what the next titles will be, then you're going to end up in another role, similar to a front desk agent, that's not actually moving up. So something that I did is, on LinkedIn, we did research together.
We searched for people who had the current job title, hotel manager, and then we copied and pasted all of their prior job titles. [00:53:00] Going all the way back to the first job that's listed on their profile. So we charted out all of the career paths for like 20 different hotel managers to see what promotional titles they took along the way.
And you see, that is a skill in itself: to know what's the next job title you should take, and the next one after that, and the next one after that, before you can finally become a hotel manager. That's just one example of a tiny sub-skill in your job search.
Jabez Roberts: Um, it sounds a lot like when you go to college, and you're going to do a degree, and they say to you that, alright, in order to become an accountant, you're going to need to do this economics course, this accounting course, this course in business principles, and that's your first year.
And in your second year, you're going to have to do this second accounting course, this managerial course, this finance course. And then in your third year, you're going to do this mathematics course, this mathematics course, this statistics course, and this other advanced finance course. It sounds a lot like that.
And that is why I love that you're teaching us about the system because it's well thought out and it's well strategized. It's showing us that there's a path to being a successful job candidate, which there has to be. The next thing that I want us to look at in terms of The 5-Day Job Search is we've had the photo shoot, we've had the LinkedIn profile set up.
How do we go about applying? Do we just click easy apply on LinkedIn? Do we go to their website and try to send a custom email? Do we show up at the company's door with our resume in hand and a bunch of flowers? How do we go about it?
Annie Margarita Yang: No, I honestly, what I do is I write a highly targeted resume and LinkedIn profile for the title that we're going after first.
So once you have that [00:55:00] highly targeted profile, that's why I just talked about the job title, knowing exactly what job title you're going for.
With that in hand, you can use the Easy Apply button. So what I do is, I just upload the resume to ZipRecruiter or Indeed or LinkedIn. Right. And I literally, yes, I use that Easy Apply button.
I don't try to customize the resume for each job listing. So, with that Easy Apply button, I mean, you're really looking at one minute per application. So in my book, "The 5-Day Job Search", I talk about the importance of applying to 50 jobs a day. You have to go big or go home. So, if you're applying to 50 jobs a day and you're using the Easy Apply, it's really, you're really only spending one hour per day submitting applications.
And I guarantee you, most people are not applying to 50 jobs a day. When they complain about their job search and how they can't find a job. Nothing's working out for them; people aren't calling them back. If you really ask them, "How many jobs did you apply to yesterday?" They're gonna give you an answer like, "Five. I applied to so many. I applied to five." That's the kind of answer they're going to give you.
Jabez Roberts: After the apply, we have everything up to that point. Interview time. Tips to nail our job interview so that we can have a higher chance of being a successful candidate.
Annie Margarita Yang: So, one of the things is, because you're using the Easy Apply, you're not actually researching the companies before you apply.
Only after you get an interview scheduled, that's when you start researching the company. So go on Google, go on all of their social media, find out exactly what is the company doing. How does the company make money? Who does the company serve? How many people work there? You can find out that information looking at their LinkedIn company profile or Glassdoor. When was the company founded? Why did the person who founded the company found the company? Are there any news articles about this company? You need to be really, really in-depth in your research about this company and have questions ready for this company as well. Like, you're not going into the job interview just to do this question-answer kind of thing. It's a two-way street. You're also trying to find out whether you are a good fit for the company, and whether the company is a good fit for you. Maybe you're not going to be happy working there. This is your time to also do your due diligence.
So, with all the research that you've done, not only do you come across as somebody who's well-prepared, which they will absolutely love because, you know, apparently people show up to job interviews not even knowing what the company does, which is really embarrassing. Yeah, apparently that happens. This is also your moment to vet that company and make sure you're not working for a bad company because who you associate yourself with affects how people view your reputation. And that's true. It also affects who you become.
Jabez Roberts: Is there ever a point or perhaps some red flags that we should look at, and when we see these things in a company, we can look at them as red flags and say, "Ah, because of this and because of that, I think it's best that I don't proceed any further," because not all companies are great, you know. So, what are some of the red flags we perhaps could see in companies when they send out applications and so on?
Annie Margarita Yang: Yeah, you know what? I actually think some things you can do, which I wish I could have done before, is add people on LinkedIn who used to work there, former employees. They'd be more open to talking about what it's really like working at that kind of company. So you can add those people on LinkedIn and just say, "Hey, looking to connect."
Um, by the way, I also have an interview lined up with this company. I just wanted to know what's your personal opinion. Like, you know, maybe you won't get straight answers because people do also have to be politically correct, and they don't want to say something that can bite them in the mind later on.
But that is one way you can go about doing that to find out any red flags. Another thing is during the interview itself, you can ask, "Why did the previous person leave?" If this is like a position that just opened up because someone left, you can find out, like, was this person fired? Why was this person fired?
Like, what's the real truth behind that? That might give you some clues. Like, if the person has come back, I totally ignored one of these red flags when I asked, "Why did the previous person leave?" And the person who answered this question said, "Oh, it just didn't work out." It's like a very vague answer.
It just didn't work out. We've had many people who tried to do this role, but they couldn't do the role. And here I am naively thinking I can do the role. Maybe I'm different. No, it's a company culture problem going on here. Should have been a red flag in itself. Yeah.
Jabez Roberts: You know what's funny?
It's also like a relationship in some ways. Like you meet this nice girl or guy and you're so interested in them. They're so attractive, so handsome, so beautiful, whatever it is that you find alluring, and you overlook everything else. And when they speak about their ex, their ex is the worst person ever.
And they speak about the ex before that, and that is the worst person ever. And the last five exes are absolutely terrible. And in your mind, so naive and stupid, you're like, "You know what? Those last five exes were terrible, but me, I'm going to be the one."
Annie Margarita Yang: Lo and behold, three months later, you're the one.
I love it. I never thought of it in that way. In fact, I do compare the job search to dating. Like, the interview is like the first date when you first get to know someone as well, to see if you're a good fit. So I have made that analogy in "The 5-Day Job Search", but I love what you said. That was great.
Jabez Roberts: You hear that, guys? So sometimes with these companies, the money might be good. But swipe left, don't go. They're not always that great. They'll take your soul. You know what's quite interesting? Because we go to school and we're like, "Alright, go to school, get the high grades, get into college, study hard, get the degree."
We've trained ourselves to think that the job is the prize. You're the prize. Yes, they should want you. You're not supposed to be the one to need them. Of course, they're going to pay you, but a lot of times because of that misconstrued understanding of what the job and employer-employee relationship is like, I think that leads to toxic work environments, stressed-out workers, demotivation, dishonesty, disengagement – the list goes on and on.
I'm enjoying this because now we've come to the fun part. We have gotten the interview. We perhaps found a good catch, a diamond in the rough, a company that we love to represent, we like to work, we like to grow with. A job offer is on the table. They are offering $80,000 for example. We want $100,000. How, and I don't know if this is in the book, but if there is, are there any negotiation tips that we can use to get a higher salary?
What are some of the things that we can do to position ourselves from the get-go to get more money?
Annie Margarita Yang: One of the ways is actually to do your market research. So, whatever number they throw at you, it's actually, there's a range. There's a range that you can work with, but you don't actually know what their range is.
But what you can do is you can find out what the market range is. Anyone can do this. So, let's say again, going back to the example I used before about the hotel manager, you can go on Google and search "hotel manager." Um, let's say I live in Boston, "hotel manager Boston median/average salary." A whole bunch of search results come up, right?
Let's say there's 10 different search results, open all of those different search results in a brand new tab. And then what they will do is they will give you a low, median, and high. Copy the URL as a source into Excel, then copy each one with a low, median, and high into your Excel sheet. So by then you should have 10 rows and um, 4 columns.
Column 1 is the source, column 2 is low, column 3 is median, and column 4 is high. And then, out of those 10, at the bottom of your Excel sheet, you can do an average. So, average out the low, average out the median, and then average out the high. Therefore, you have an average of averages based on your research. And you can go back to the employer and say, "Hey, based on my research, you're actually on the low end of the market. And for someone of my skill and experience, because I do have skills and experience, and I'm definitely able to help you and solve your problem easily, I think I deserve at least this much more because of the market price." So that way, you're not saying you want more money, and you should get more money just because you actually have numbers to back up what you're asking for.
Now, if what they offered you was already on the high end?
Jabez Roberts: And a cogent argument as well. A very good argument as to why you should get more money.
Annie Margarita Yang: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll have a good argument, but also if you're already on the high end, like if they've already offered you the high end of that range, then you don't really have much negotiation room to ask for more because they've already given you what you should be getting paid. Right. So what you can do is you can start negotiating for benefits. So you can negotiate for how many days off you get for vacation and sick. Um, flexibility in your schedule. Maybe you can negotiate your job title as well. There are a lot more things you can negotiate that are not based on salary. Yes, that's one of the things too.
Jabez Roberts: You know, one of the tricks that I've heard, I haven't used it because I haven't worked for anyone in a while. One of the tricks I've heard is that when you get a job offer from Company A, before you accept it, you can wait for a job offer from Company B. And when Company B offers you more, let's hope they offer you more than Company A and you want to work for Company A, you say to Company A that another company, you don't have to tell them the name of the company, has offered me such and such an amount. Are you willing to match this amount? And you can go from there. And another trick, it's not even a trick, it's like advice at this stage. They say that you shouldn't stay too long in one job. So once you get to a company and you do a good job, you move somewhere else. And that's the fastest way to increase your income. I've been told because as you move positions, not positions, but companies, every time you're hired, you're normally going to get a pay raise with that hire. So instead of waiting for the company you're currently at to pay you more, you can leave and go somewhere else. That's going to pay you as mandatory for you joining them. I don't know how good that is for company retention and for the long-term success in the economy and business and so on, but I mean, if you're not getting paid enough, then what are you to do?
Annie Margarita Yang: I think it depends. It really depends on the individual company.
Some companies are more proactive in wanting to retain their employees. Some companies do want to negotiate. They want you to stay, but if you're not giving them the option, if you haven't had that difficult conversation with them well in advance of applying, then you're not giving them a chance.
You know, they took a chance on you to hire you to begin with. I think the companies deserve to have a chance to retain you. You need to have that tough conversation. Like, "Hey, I want a promotion. I want a raise. How can I get this? How can I add more value to your company so that we both win?" I think the problem is people aren't having those kinds of conversations. They just want to apply for a new job and then go. [01:08:00]
Jabez Roberts: Yeah, I think that's what's called quiet quitting as well. When you're not as engaged in your job and you eventually leave. What I'm hearing from you is something that I love. It's not always just about the money. Sometimes you have to get comfortable having uncomfortable conversations. Just speaking with your employer about what you would require of them in terms of compensation and remuneration is a good thing. It's hard because we live in a generation that doesn't handle criticism very well or uncomfortable situations. That's why people get ghosted so often. We're in the relationships sphere all over again. So instead of having a difficult conversation and resolving the issues, we ghost each other, we block each other, and we move on and pretend like it never happened. Emotional immaturity. But one of the things that I've heard that actually works in getting you a promotion is from - you're familiar with Dr. Jordan Peterson?
Annie Margarita Yang: Yes, I'm familiar with him. I love his work.
Jabez Roberts: What Dr. Peterson says that you should do, he says [01:09:00] that whenever you want to get a raise, there are a few things you do first. You should set up your resume. So you're going to want to read "The 5-Day Job Search." You're definitely going to read that. So you're going to set up your resume, your LinkedIn profile, and in the instance, you're going to get the soft skills. And if there are complementary skills that you can learn, so for example, you're a UX designer, perhaps you can learn some Photoshop and some Adobe After Effects. If you're a teacher, perhaps you can learn some psychological tricks or tips on how to really connect with your students, whatever the case might be, the soft skills as we might put them. So you can improve on your craft, get better than the average person. That's the first thing. Then when you are better than the average person, that's going to equip you to take on more responsibilities. As you take on more responsibilities in your company that fits the salary that you require, that fits the station or the promotion that you want to get. You do that for a while, and you go to your boss, your manager. You say to them that these [01:10:00] are the things that I've been doing within your company, and it would benefit you to pay me a salary that fits this job description or these jobs that I've been taking on, these tasks that I've been getting done. And because managers and bosses and company founders tend to have a lot of sense if they're successful, you might find yourself with a raise. And if they don't give you that raise, two things happen. The first is that because you've done hard work, because you've improved yourself, you're therefore more marketable and you're more viable to the marketplace. You can then use that for the second thing to get a job elsewhere, and someone else will pay you, which is why you start by punching up your resume.
I have not spent a lot of time working for businesses or companies. I've been an entrepreneur for quite some time, but if I have an employee that comes to me saying this, it would be in my best interest to pay them what is required to retain them. That is my two cents. [01:11:00]
Annie Margarita Yang: I agree with what you have to say. And actually, this concept is in "The 5-Day Job Search" itself. It's about how you shouldn't pay attention to the salary initially; you should ask for more responsibility. So when your boss assigns you a task, do it quickly, do it well, and then go back to your boss and say, "I have finished the task. I have some downtime. I want some more responsibility. Can I have some more?" And then he'll give you some more. Do that. Go back and say, "I have finished this quickly. I have done it to your standard. Can I have some more responsibility?" And eventually, he'll run out of small tasks to give you that are very menial and don't really matter. And he will have to give you bigger tasks because he will definitely run out of those small tasks. So you'll be given bigger tasks, more responsibility. But you don't ask for more pay. Don't ask for a better title just yet. Just become really, really good at [01:12:00] what you do and have more responsibility to the point where you actually, honestly, no one can argue that you deserve a pay raise and a promotion to go with it, right? And then it's at that point you can ask for more. But only because you can finally say, "You know what? I am indeed worth it." And you'll have that confidence in the way you carry yourself as well.
Jabez Roberts: Yes. So you earn it, and you're not going to pretend like you're entitled to more money. And that's powerful and important right there. So Ari, how did you enjoy today's podcast interview? Did you have a good time?
Annie Margarita Yang: I actually genuinely enjoyed this podcast interview. I think what you're really good at is you're a good listener. Surprisingly, you're able to keep track of the conversation and summarize all the main points of the conversation in one go. That's a really, really good skill to have as a podcast host. Now, we had some tech issues today. You had some sneezing today, [01:13:00] but you know what? Things happen, and we just have to work with it. And I'm glad that you have a good attitude about it.
Jabez Roberts: Thank you. By the way, guys, it's not going to make the final cut, but as the episode has gone on, I've progressively gotten worse, like allergy season, and I'm sick. So you can see my eyes are red. It's been terrible. So that's what Andy is talking about. So it has been good. And it's a lesson on persistence and perseverance through difficult times. That's how the great men have done it. We have a tradition on the podcast, actually. And here's how the tradition works. Whenever we have a guest, and the guest has had a good time, and the audience naturally is going to have a good time as well, we like to ask the guest that given their experience, so given your experience, Annie, who is one guest that you would love to see on the podcast? And for this guest, we are formally going to invite them based on your [01:14:00] recommendation. And we would like for you to ask a question, ask them, so you can have an answer to that question from them. So who is that guest you would like to see? And for this guest, what is one question you would like to ask them?
Annie Margarita Yang: I would like to invite one of the coaches that I took a seminar from. Her name is Jocelyn Herman Saccio. And she is all about possibility, the art of possibility. And she's the one who taught me how to be unmessable with. So even when other people reject me and say no, how can I keep going forward and turn anything into a possibility? And my question for her would be, "How can I turn 'The 5-Day Job Search' into the possibility of selling 100 million copies of this book?”
Because somebody told me, Annie, "A hundred million copies, you know, a couple million could be [01:15:00] realistic, but a hundred million copies of 'The 5-Day Job Search' is kind of unrealistic." Because if you go on Wikipedia, only a few, like a handful of books have actually surpassed a hundred million. And we're talking about like, 'Harry Potter' has sold over a hundred million. But even then, it took J. K. Rowling so long before even just the first book in that series surpassed a hundred million copies. So how can I make this a possibility for myself as well? If other people have done it, there must be a way for me to do it too, right?
Jabez Roberts: Jocelyn?
Annie Margarita Yang: Herman Sachio.
Jabez Roberts: Yes. Herman Sachio? Correct. And you want to find out from her. I want to ask her, preferably, how can you make 'The 5-Day Job Search' a book that's sold over a hundred million copies? This isn't the answer, [01:16:00] but this is one very good way to go about it. There is a book that I would like you to read. And in that book, it explains how you can actually get more books sold. It's called 'Growth Hacking'. Oh, wow. I don't remember the author, but if you type the book in Google or in Amazon, you should see 'Growth Hacking Marketing'. I don't remember the book. I read it like two and a half, perhaps three years ago. And I'll tell you what, there's this gentleman by the name of Patrick, but David...
Annie Margarita Yang: I know him. My friend is friends with his sister.
Jabez Roberts: Yes, your friend is friends with Patrick's sister? Patrick's sister. Yes. Oh, that's brilliant. That's awesome. Imagine that. Yeah. I'll tell you what, in Patrick's most recent book — no, not the most recent, the one before that, because he had one recently — [01:17:00] 'Five Business Moves'. I have the book. It's in the drawer over here. I'll tell you what the book is called: 'Master the Art of Business Strategy: Your Next Five Moves'. When he was going to start selling that book, the marketing strategy to sell New York Times bestselling books is in 'Growth Hacking Marketing'. I could look and tell that that was the exact marketing strategy that he was using. And that book was a New York Times bestseller the very first week it was released. So that's something that you can look into: 'Growth Hacking Marketing'. And there's a whole community around growth hacking and everything like that. Thank you. You're welcome. This has been a wonderful experience. I enjoyed it. Fraught with challenges as it was. You're a very cheerful and vibrant person. I love talking with you. We would like to invite you for a panel discussion in the future. What are your thoughts on that?
Annie Margarita Yang: I would [01:18:00] be open to it. I am open to all opportunities to be able to get my message out there and to meet new people.
Jabez Roberts: Excellent. So we'll continue speaking with you about future plans for a panel discussion where you will also be a member, a guest on that panel. Thank you for your time today, Annie. You've been wonderful.
Annie Margarita Yang: Take care. Thank you, Jabez. Take care.
